If you’re a WIRED reader who uses AI in any creative context, I’d suggest staying far, far away from anyone involved in the TV show Hacks. In an interview earlier this year, actor Hannah Einbinder (who plays young comedy writer Ava Daniels on the show) described AI creators as “losers,” “not artists,” and “not special.”
The show’s cocreators couldn’t agree more. In a wide-ranging conversation for The Big Interview ahead of the Hacks series finale on HBO Max, Paul W. Downs and Lucia Aniello were resolute about the value of human creativity—and what can be lost when AI enters the picture.
If their work on Hacks is any indication, Downs and Aniello (along with their third cocreator, Jen Statsky) would be wise to stick with the tough, tiring, absolutely-no-shortcuts approach they take to making entertainment. Across five excellent seasons—if you haven’t seen the show, I really do recommend it—Hacks has been praised for its sharp writing and wit, and its thoughtful portrayal of Deborah Vance and Ava’s complex, constantly evolving relationship. The show has also acted as something of a mirror for the real-world entertainment industry, weaving in plotlines that tackle everything from media consolidation to corporate censorship to, yes, artificial intelligence.
The show’s cast and creators have been on a media whirlwind as it all comes to an end. (If you keep seeing Hacks fodder on your Instagram feed, trust me, you are not alone.) When they came knocking on WIRED’s door, we jumped at the chance to chat, and I was lucky enough to spend an hour with Downs and Aniello—both WIRED subscribers, much to my delight—earlier this month. Here’s our conversation.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
KATIE DRUMMOND: Lucia Aniello and Paul Downs, who I just learned are married, congratulations and welcome to The Big Interview.
LUCIA ANIELLO: Thank you so much.
PAUL W. DOWNS: You should have been there. You should have been there.
Aniello: Ugh, why didn’t we bring you? That’s crazy. Next time. We are going to renew for our 10-year at the same place though.
Where was the wedding?
Aniello: It was in Italy. It was in Tuscany. That’s all I’ll say.
Downs: Lucia was born in Italy, so it was closer to a lot of family.
And you were married in what year?
Aniello: 2021.
So I have some time, like another five years …
Downs: You have time to find your look. Don’t stress.
A major priority for me in my life is perfecting my look. It’s very important to us at WIRED, having our look down.
Aniello: Fashion first, that’s WIRED. That’s you guys, right?
We do work at Condé Nast, and my boss is Anna Wintour. So “fashion first” has become more of a priority for me than it used to be. It’s like “fashion third,” you know?
Downs: Fashion third. I like that.
My husband and I blew through a bunch of season 5 of Hacks this weekend. I’m excited to talk to you about the show, and I want to start by talking about women, a subject close to my heart, as I am one. But I also run a magazine that was run by men for years.
I’m surrounded by men. They’re everywhere in my life. They’re everywhere in our coverage. And this show I love, in particular, because it centers around this relationship between these two women, who are very powerful in different ways in their own right, and they have this very complicated relationship and this big generational gap.
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